Curse

Damonias · Jan 20, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

After this latest update I'm experiencing some anxiety about what is to come of the game.

I've read through the forums and I've noticed that a lot of people are singing praises about the update. I've also noticed that they are all Monks, Necros and Rangers. That is, when complimenting something outside the new interface (Which I think is just amazing, and visually stunning).

As I've progressed through the game, I've noticed that more and more, the game leans towards certain character class types, which I think is most unfortunate. When I first started playing the game, the thing that attracted me to it, was the balance of the different classes and how each class had a use.

With each patch however, every new monster has an interrupt (That they can change target and use instantly on someone casting a spell), every monster has a remove enchantment, that they mysteriously know which player to cast on that would have the most impact, every monster has a knockdown, that they can use over and over, every 10 seconds or so, etc etc...

In PVE -
I enjoy a challenge. And I will admit to feeling that the game has been at times, a little too easy. However, all they are doing is making it so that the only classes that will be wanted in groups, are monks, necros. (Warriors or Rangers can tank if necessary.) The balance of the game is being lost, because everything interrupts (making Ele's the most useless class in the game now), everything removes enchantments (Making protection less and less valuable). Everything has some sort of natural regen, making Degen less and less useful. Essentially, the game is lending itself more and more to Minion Master builds and SS builds, and monks are just necessary for healing.

Having played in the new UW - It looks like Trappers might find a place. So, the 4 man group looks like two monks, MM and a Trapper. The unfortunate thing, is that the game is making people find cheap ways to be victorious which leads to elitist attitudes amoungst the players and is essentially what ended up destroying half the player base of Everquest.

I don't think the answer is to 'nerf' the Necro class. Or to Nerf monks. The answer is to make the game more balanced, so that other classes can participate as well.

I know this post is likely to get Mesmers going, saying that they are as good as any other class. Mesmers are great PvP classes, best in the game IMO, but PVE - they are only as good as their secondary class (Which is most commonly necro).

I've played every class, ascended with every class but Warrior (never enjoyed playing a warrior). The more and more I progress through the game, the more I become disappointed in it's disappearing balance. I just wish there was a game out there that wouldn't compremise balance, just to make the game more difficult.

Perhaps I'm the only one that feels this way. Who knows. And this isn't really a complaint per say, it's more just a concern. And anyone can see it, just go to any farm area, and look at whats in demand. What game manufactures need to understand, is that it's game play that makes things happen like that, not the classes themselves.

Instead of throwing more monsters at us, where each has interrupt, heal and remove enchantment, which leads to MM's having lots of creatures to build an army from, which is the only way to distract the army of enemies enough. And the sheer attack power of the overwhelming numbers, leading it to be more efficient to have fewer in a party (Less people to heal). Have fewer, more dynamic monsters. Ones that run away when their health gets low. Create an aggro system (like most MoRPG's have), where a warrior can actually build it without having to hold something. Where damage causes a creature to get mad, rather than having every creature able to target instantly someone who is casting just to interrupt. Basically, add elements to the game, that add to its richness. Not elements to the game that just make it so that the only classes that are needed/wanted are those who aren't affected by the rediculous skills of the enemy.

With each update, the game lends itself more and more towards a narrower range of Class types. This leads me to believe that the new classes in the game are going to be entirely unbalanced, as they add parts to the game that will make those new classes necessary and thus eliminating the function of another class type.

Anyway, it's just my opinion.

P.S - Why don't Mesmers have a mesmerization spell?

generik · Jan 20, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Yeap, I noticed this same trend too.

Nowadays as an ele you just gotta keep spamming GoC/MoC to be able to get your cast off, either that or maybe you play as an air spiker, or something.

SyR1S · Jan 20, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

i like a challenge but wtf is going on now all post searing units have interupts and enchantment removal, i play a w/mo in PVE mostly or farming and tanking, i use mending (for PVE NOT PVP) and every 5 seconds it gets taken off now i dont bring it because the skill is completely pointless.

generik · Jan 20, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Eles are really quite useless now, I certainly hope some of the skills are rebalanced shortly to take into account the casting time AND casting cost.

It is not like meteor shower is some magic spell that follows the target everywhere, 25 energy PLUS 5 seconds to cast is too expensive already.

theclam · Jan 20, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Enchantment removal hurts Monks most of all. Especially Protection Monks. If anything, that's an indirect buff to an Elementalist's Wards.

Wait until February. Once the World Championship is over, there will be a balance patch. After that, if Elementalists are still gimped, then it's really time to complain.

Damonias · Jan 20, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Wards just get interrupted, because they aren't instants, and you need to be right in the fray. So, while wards in theory would be great, they just aren't practically.

But my point is that the game is making it so that there are 2 classes (3 if you include a tank of somesort) that are able to go through the game easiest, because of the game play.

There are other uses for the other classes, but their uses are not so obvious, and not so easy to actually use. For example, as an Ele/Necro, I can still out damage an SS Necro easily in farms that allow for a gear tank (Because the Gear Tank keeps aggro, and I don't get interrupted). And I say that, having done SS and seen the damage output, and compared it to the Ele. There really isn't a comparison. But then, I don't use Echo Meteor shower (Cuz that's really just too slow and costly to keep doing lots of damage). So, yes, there are still uses for other classes, but those uses are undermined, because generally, a necro can do it better/more efficiently.

But we'll see what sort of balancing happens. If they balance the character classes, it's just going to create problems. They need to balance the game play, not the classes.

Deathqueen · Jan 20, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Yeah and what's with Doylak Signet and Balanced stance not working as it should. I'm not suppose to be able to be knocked down, but, when I go to use my cyclone axe or Signet heal myself whamo on the ground I go from those Dwarven Herder flippin mobs with something called "counter blow", this is bs. If the skill says "can't be knocked down for X amount of seconds then by gawd I shouldn't be knocked down fo X amount of seconds".

And in Maguuma slade woah what did they do to those used to be easy to kill scarabs. Damn I got degened and disenchanted so fast and I even had henchies and we got overwhelmed by just a few (4) and some trolls. I gotta laugh how Anet goes from one extreme to another, either too darn easy or rediculously hard.

Any of you played the 4x4 new arena against the pre-built AI teams? Lol That IWAY team is something to behold. And they don't even give the player a good selection of AI's to bring into the arena. Where's the Necro ??? Flippin Elementalist is a joke for taking on any missions anymore because of their AOE scare spell now. I think the game is going down the drain myself. PVE has lost it's flare, many of the henchies aren't as good as they used to be. Most are still just as dumb. Stupid Archer Henchie didn't even bring a damn rez sig when I went to Abaddons Mouth to cap an Elite.

There really needs to be a hold position and an attack button added when playing with Henchies. So I can pull the mobs to them instead of the warriors charging down the hill into the group and then aggroing even more by doing so. I can pull well with a bow and do well if I just take the AI ranger, necro, and the two monks, but, there are just some places where I could use those other two warriors, the elemenatlist can stay in town forever as far as I care, they are worthless now.

Littzain · Jan 20, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

To be honest, in PvE all you really need is warriors and monks (essentially).

Although, in PvP, if it's balanced, I'm happy.

anonymous · Jan 20, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Well one positive thing about this is that it will keep the noobs out of the higher areas.

antialias02 · Jan 20, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Just as a quick comment:

The game isn't designed to be able to sustain four man groups. Except in, like Ascalon. If you think four and five man groups were ANet's intention, you should probably go find a new game.

jaibas17 · Jan 20, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

ok, so you say game is leaned toward certain classes?

first of all, to start, grab a good mesmer with sme good interrupts, maybe slowdown cast time, and interrupt those annoying mesmers.

a good stance survival warrior, with anything but stances, resistaces, heal, tactics can mostly tank everything out there, i havent see enemies do wild blow anyways

a good minion master can rock i know, but it cant do better than a very good glyph power nuker,

why not use your friends advantage towards urs? grab 2 warriors, stance tank and AS warrior. after someone spams meteor shower, make the warrior cast aftershock n them, enemies tend to ball up if body blocked corretly. grab 2 AS warrior, and deal some mayhen

SS necros are good, but boy you dont know how frustrating it is to spam your SS. whith that much cry of frustration, it aint simply as easy

Monks will always be needed. deal with it

I know trappers are good, but there are other things that might be better than a trapper. what about a group with 1 echo nuker, 1 trapper, 1 interrupt ranger, 1 AS warrior, and a monk? maybe an interrupt mesmer instead of an interrupt ranger

come on, i dont think a ranger cannot interrupt the meteor shower that kills like 15 fiends per aoe

chaos worms, there is where a stance tank takes place, just tell him to not move and absorb all damage. besides, the interrupter can just make chaos on siege worms, almost totally blocking them

you are mad with the party u got? make yourself one

I was mad cuz of the noobiness with some people, and I decided to do one myself, this making a common 1 warrior, 1 mesmer, 1 ranger, 2 monks, 1 MM, 1 SS, and a glyph power nuker.

guess what? kinda hard but we did it first try. good communication is essential, last 3 groups were killed in scarred earth worms -.-

I think that this are good ideas for parties

If you are unhappy with parties, make one

aeroclown · Jan 20, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Eles are really quite useless now, I certainly hope some of the skills are rebalanced shortly to take into account the casting time AND casting cost.

It is not like meteor shower is some magic spell that follows the target everywhere, 25 energy PLUS 5 seconds to cast is too expensive already.

I wouldn't say that they are useless, I have one and I love it even now with the changes. The thing is not to use brute force, but to think of a way to compliment the players in your team. If you want Aoes take 2 elementals one can slow and can aoe, very simple works well. Find a ranger that can pin down, or some such, hamstring, those skills where not just put in there to annoy you one way or the other. You can find very good ways of using part skills together to handle mobs. While I do agree that the mobs have increased in size and have become more difficult to defeat, I find that a fun challenge. I would personally prefer to fail horribly at something that seems impossible then win everytime to something that seems to easy. I'm not entirely so sure I see this whole "classes have become useless", I think I see more of classes have to depend more on each other. Designed to foster better team play where that might be possible.

toastgodsupreme · Jan 20, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

So what monsters have been changed specifically with this update? Can we at least get a list going here?

Scarabs near maguuma stade were mentioned, anything else?

Red Locust · Jan 20, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Meet Mantra of Resolve. If the mesmers are destroying you, take a page from their own book and equip mantra of resolve on your caster. Nobody said you have to be a 100% pure ele or necro or whatever.

chippxero · Jan 20, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Red Locust is right, the problem isn't the way the creatures are set up it's people not being flexable with their own build, if people try changing skills around and preparing a bit for different situations they will come off the winner.

I'm willing to bet a lot of players stick to one or 2 builds and never deviate from them, but new creatures with new tactics opens up more of the game to players.

khaldryck · Jan 20, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

I don't agree with you about Mesmers being almost worthless.
with my mesmer, a monk friend (you'll always need a good monk) and henchies we were able to finish the game easily.

The problem is that you have to adapt your build.
A denial mesmer is not that good in PvE.
Just try all those other skills the mesmer has got.

I'm not telling you exactly how to create a good PvE build.
It's up to each of us to find something tht match our way of playing.

I found mine. It rocks in PvE, it sucks in PvP ...

With each updates, you have to think again your build, sometimes just changing a skill can make the difference.

I played all classes in Pve except for rangers. I can tell now that my favorites are Mesmer and warriors. two classes with a completely different way of playing.

It's just a question of choices ...

Dingo Dave · Jan 20, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

earlier someone mentioned about the IWAY party of npc's.
Granted they are very tough, but if you watch all of those npc groups they are very inflexible (who would have guessed

)
We took them out in 30 seconds with a monk, 2 ele and a necro.
THis was after working otu exactly what each person had to do and working as a team.
Maybe people just need to talk to other more in game and instead of just taking YOUR build work with others.

sheepysheepy · Jan 20, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

eles getting interupted a lot? theres this totally new haxor skill in the secondary class of most elementalists!!! i beleive it to be known as mantra of resolve /endsarcasm

enchantstrippings a bit tougher, but maybe this is where mesmers can be finally be useful along with interupt rangers..? rend could be interupted by anyone even if not experienced and lagging out ;P u get fair warning, shatter enchantments the only real pain and seems to be used a lot in the new pve tombs

MisterB · Jan 20, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damonias

Having played in the new UW - It looks like Trappers might find a place. So, the 4 man group looks like two monks, MM and a Trapper.

....

So, speaking from a Ranger's point of view, what are the two Monks and minion master Necro for?

Just take 4 Trappers. Worms could be annoying, if you're not careful.

Warskull · Jan 20, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

You should carry mantra of resolve. It is one of the best skills you can have as an ele. Run 16 in your primary element, 10 in energy storage, and 8 in inspiration. It works extremely well.